I find it quite sad that many of the people in today's world indulge in these evil traits. Although they are widespread among humanity around the globe, once someone indulges in it, the true problem emerges. To some degree everyone performs these items, sometimes it is even given the label "Common Sense", well there is nothing common about it except the fact that everyone has their own verison of it. And regardless of what people may believe, everyone is a victim or will be someday. It doesn't matter if you are rich,poor,smart,unintelligent,physically fit, or not; In some form or fashion a person somewhere, somehow, will put you down for who you are, or in some case for who you are not. For instances, today I was spending my night with Ashley as usually and Ashley tells me that I have a voicemail from Amy Johnson. Quite frankly my first thought was that the message was some silly mesh of words with no meaning, as are many voicemails I get from not only a selective of Ashley's friends but also from my brother and his friends. So I start listening to the voicemail and to my surprise I hear "Hey Saeed, you are an Asshole, if you hurt Ashley again I'll kill you". Now what is most surprising about this message isn't the fact that she labeled me as an asshole, as she has disliked me for reasons unknown since day one it seems and I have had a few standing strong arguments or disagreements with her. Not even the killing part interested really, infact I was quite thrilled that she left a message with such langauge so if I ever did need authorities to restrain her from myself, so that I don't have to deal with such childish violence, I'd have some evidence as to her voilent tone with me. Yet what did really interest me was the hurting Ashley portion of her message. I wonder, has Amy ever seen Ashley spend the endless nights with me? Has Amy ever seen the amount of love and caring I give Ashley? In fact I can safely state that Amy is entirely ignorant of my relationship with Ashley and must be using her burdensome "Common Sense" in accusing me of such nonsense. Is it because I'm Male? Maybe because I'm older? Or part of my lineage is from an arab background? Or because I'm Muslim? Or some other reason? And also what was her rhteroical purpose in even leaving such a baseless message in the first place? To scare me? Well I'm sorry to inform her that if this is the case, she failed at the intended purpose. I'm sure Amy isn't alone in her opinions, but more less the only one with enough "Balls" as the saying goes to tell me over the phone. Well if any the individuals who share her opinions, even Amy herself, have a chance to prove yourselves, that is if you even care to justify the nonsense although I'll warn you now that it will be an idle effort. Bring your proof, your evidence. Bring your strongest, your best, and rest asure that I will crush your lies, unveil the truths you fail to mention, and rebuttle every single point you bring forth.

PS

Happy Holidays for the rest of Mindsay Folks =]

After analyzing many verses pretaining to the Messiah I have come to the conclusion that it doesn't fit the description of Jesus. Now before I hear the typical off topic responses I got on certain forums letme address this:

#1 Yes, Muslims believe Jesus was the 'Messiah' (Annointed one). But notice what the topic is, is Jesus the Messiah ACCORDING TO THE OLD TESTAMENT. I'm not using the Qur'an, I'm merely looking at the Jewish Scriptures and trying to be as objective as I can while reading through them and asking myself, Does that sound like Jesus? Could this be talking about Jesus? So please don't come in here and tell me I'm contradicting my faith, I've had this rather annoying response repeated to death. Thank you in advance

#2 Christians also believe that Jesus was the Messiah, but obviously Christians believe the Jewish Scriptures are the perfect word of God, thus what the Old Testament says about the Messiah should be equally important to Christians and Jews alike. One religion must be correct, not both. Either Jesus is or isn't the Messiah, and the purpose of this discussion is to find out whether the Old Testament labels Jesus as the Messiah or not.

With that said let's drive into the main verses and the interepertations I've gathered:

First off I went from source to source writing down what they considered to be Messiahic prophecies, if you disagree with them, state which verse and why.

Isaiah 2:4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more. (KJV)

This verse seems to state that 'World Peace' will happen. Obviously the modern day World is far from this concept, as the United States is currently at war with Iraq...

Ezekiel 37:26 Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them: and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set My sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore. [27] My tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I will be their G-d, and they shall be my people. [28] And the heathen shall know that I the LORD do sanctify Israel, when My sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore. (KJV)

Has this occured? If so explain.

Isaiah 11:9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea. (KJV)

Jeremiah 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know Me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more. (KJV)

Isn't nearly if not more than a third of the Earth's population Atheist? But I guess Atheists 'Know about God' but just don't believe in God. Any other opinions on this?

"...you may appoint a king over you, wham the L-rd your G-d shall choose: one from among your brethren shall you set as king over you."(Deut. 17:15)

So the Messiah must be Jewish?

"The staff shall not depart from Judah, nor the sceptre from between his feet" (Genesis 49:10)

Will be a member of the tribe of Judah?According to my source in order to be a member the person must have a biological father who is a member.

"And when your days (David) are fulfilled, and you shall sleep with your fathers, I will set up your seed after you, who shall issue from your bowels, and I will establish his kingdom. He shall build a house for my name, and I will make firm the throne of his kingdon forever..."(2 Samuel 7:12-13)

Direct male descendant of King David and King Solomon?

"And he shall set up a banner for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth." (Isaiah 11:12)

Has this happened yet?

"...and I will set my sanctuary in their midst forever and my tabernacle shall be with them..." (Ezekiel 37:26-27)(

Must rebuild the temple in Jerusalem? Has this happened?

"My servant David shall be king over them; and they shall all have one shepherd. They shall follow My ordinances and be careful to observe My statutes."(Ezekiel 37:24)

Has this happened?

Did Jesus fullfill all these verses? It certainty doesn't seem so...Also I'm sure someone will bring up Isaiah 53. Although it certainity does sound like Jesus, this source does a nice job giving an interpertation that seems to work. If you disagree with it, explain why and where you disagree.

http://www.messiahtruth.com/isai53a.html

Also one source had this to say about Jesus:

"What About Jesus?

Jews do not believe that Jesus was the moshiach. Assuming that he existed, and assuming that the Christian scriptures are accurate in describing him (both matters that are debatable), he simply did not fulfill the mission of the moshiach as it is described in the biblical passages cited above. Jesus did not do any of the things that the scriptures said the messiah would do.

On the contrary, another Jew born about a century later came far closer to fulfilling the messianic ideal than Jesus did. His name was Shimeon ben Kosiba, known as Bar Kochba (son of a star), and he was a charismatic, brilliant, but brutal warlord. Rabbi Akiba, one of the greatest scholars in Jewish history, believed that Bar Kochba was the moshiach. Bar Kochba fought a war against the Roman Empire, catching the Tenth Legion by surprise and retaking Jerusalem. He resumed sacrifices at the site of the Temple and made plans to rebuild the Temple. He established a provisional government and began to issue coins in its name. This is what the Jewish people were looking for in a moshiach; Jesus clearly does not fit into this mold. Ultimately, however, the Roman Empire crushed his revolt and killed Bar Kochba. After his death, all acknowledged that he was not the moshiach.

Throughout Jewish history, there have been many people who have claimed to be the moshiach, or whose followers have claimed that they were the moshiach: Shimeon Bar Kochba, Shabbatai Tzvi, Jesus, and many others too numerous to name. Leo Rosten reports some very entertaining accounts under the heading False Messiahs in his book, The Joys of Yiddish. But all of these people died without fulfilling the mission of the moshiach; therefore, none of them were the moshiach. The moshiach and the Olam Ha-Ba lie in the future, not in the past. "

So was Jesus the Messiah according to the Jewish Scriptures? Well from what I've seen (Including this and several more verses) it certainly seems not. I'd love to hear any responses/reactions. Things I'd expect to be brought up:

#1 Are the verses I found really talking about the Messiah?

#2 Other verses I left out that you feel are important?

#3  Were the interepertations of the verses given valid or is there a disagreement?

#4 Maybe you are in total agreement but wish to elaborate on the verses I used above in more depth or further a point?

#5 Maybe you have no idea what to say? =]

In any case I'd love to hear some responses to this.

Thanks

Peace

Qur'an 3:134

"Those who spend (freely), whether in prosperity, or in adversity; who restrain anger, and pardon (all) men;- for God loves those who do good."

I felt like posting this wonderful verse for someone I know who has held a grudge against their parents from since I met them. This individual's life has been miserable and full of hate, and I truly believe that once that hate is finally released they can finally be happy.

Pardon others, even if they do you wrong, the harder it is to Pardon, the greater your reward shall be in the hereafter. Also here is another worth-while quote:

Hatred paralyzes life; love releases it. Hatred confuses life; love harmonizes it. Hatred darkens life; love illumines it
--Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. (1929-1968)

Peace unto everyone

I am considering coming back and beginning to post again. I've been performing a vast amount of research on the OT specificly and how the NT stands according to it and I'd like to share some of my concerns and interpertations/findings/thoughts with individuals on Mindsay. The main reason I am considering coming back is the return of a 'Directory' in a sense that is the main reason why I didn't feel like staying. I still don't like the new verison, but it'll be sufficent in spreading the thoughts I have on theology.

Yes! Indeed the sinful child will go to straight to hell. Here is an eloquent explanation from Reverend Nathaniel P. Robbins, the glorious founder of True Christians Unite, that he wrote in response to an ignorant cultural pseudo-Christian:

More Scripture

There is plenty of evidence babies and the ignorant GO TO HELL:

Psalms 58:1
1. Do ye indeed speak righteousness, O congregation? do ye judge uprightly, O ye sons of men?
2 Yea, in heart ye work wickedness; ye weigh the violence of your hands in the earth.
3 The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.
4 Their poison [is] like the poison of a serpent: [they are] like the deaf adder [that] stoppeth her ear;

(This says that it is after they are born that they start speaking lies. They say here that there is no exception.)

Psalms 51:5

5 Behold, I was shaped in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

(If you are conceived in sin then you have to be born in sin.)

Romans 6:23

23 For the wages of sin [is] death; but the gift of God [is] eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

(If you are not old enough to know Jesus then you can not have salvation)

Romans 3:10

10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

(If there is no one who is righteous, then a baby or small child isn't righteous and therefor can't go to heaven.)

2 Peter 2:14

14 Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:
15 Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam [the son] of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;

(Children are cursed therefore they do not have salvation)

Romans 5:12

12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

(This does not make a distinction between babies and adults. For all have sinned. How can a baby be pure if all have sinned?)

Romans 5:18

18 Therefore, as by the offense of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation, even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

(We are all cursed for Adams sake.)

Genesis 2:17

17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Job 14:1

1. Man [that is] born of a woman [is] of few days, and full of trouble.

1 Corinthians 15:22

22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

(All die unless they accept Christ and a baby or young child is not able to accept Christ so they are condemned.)

Romans 9:11

11 (For [the children] being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth

(You are only saved if you have been elected by God. If not you go to hell.)

Ephesians 2:1

1. And you [hath he quickened], who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
4. But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
6 And hath raised [us] up together, and made [us] sit together in heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus:
7 That in the ages to come he might show the exceeding riches of his grace in [his] kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

(These verses say that all of us start out dead because of sin and that children are disobedient so the children are the children of wrath. So they have no salvation because they do not have any faith.)

Ephesians 5:5

5 For this ye know, that no [Edited Out]monger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

(Babies are unclean because of Adam's sin.)

1 Corinthians 7:14

14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.

(Says that your children were unclean.)

1 John 1:8

8. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

(If we say that babies have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves.)

Romans 7:14

14. For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that [it is] good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but [how] to perform that which is good I find not.

(Sin dwells in us, and no one can go to heaven with sin.)

Genesis 8:21

21 And the LORD smelled a sweet savor; and the LORD said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake; for the imagination of man's heart [is] evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more every thing living, as I have done.

(A young man is evil.)

Proverbs 22:15

15. Foolishness [is] bound in the heart of a child; [but] the rod of correction shall drive it far from him.

(A child goes to hell because they are foolish.)

Ecclesiastes 11:10

10 Therefore remove sorrow from thy heart, and put away evil from thy flesh: for childhood and youth [are] vanity.

John 3:3

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

(You have to be born again for salvation and a baby or child has not been born again.)

John 3:5

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

(You can't enter heaven without water baptism.)

Micah 7:2

2 The good [man] is perished out of the earth: and [there is] none upright among men: they all lie in wait for blood; they hunt every man his brother with a net.

(Since no one is upright a child or baby in not upright.)

John 14:6

6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

(Since babies can not come to Jesus they are not saved.)

Hebrews 11:6

6 But without faith [it is] impossible to please [him]: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and [that] he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

(Babies and children are too young to believe so they can not come to God.)

Romans 10:10

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

(A baby or young child can not confess with their mouth so they can not be saved.)

It always cracks me up how a "christian" such as yourself is just as happy as can be, when told 90% of the world's population is going to hell (including those in foreign lands completely ignorant of Jesus), yet when the prospect of babies going to hell comes into the picture, you jump over each others backs trying to come up with scripture to "save the children".

Well, it's not gonna happen! You aren't going to fool anyone around here with that mumbo-jumbo! The Bible says the only way to Heaven is through faith in Jesus Christ. Period! I do not recall ever hearing an "EXCEPT" clause in there!

Praise the Lord!
Nathaniel P. Robbins